In this video, Jim Oddo, SVP HR at Frontier Communications, discusses how Frontier is using technology to tackle long-term unemployment and veteran hiring—and getting recognized by Joe Biden as a result.
Watch this on-demand webinar now to learn:
Melissa: Cool. Well, welcome. My name is Melissa Foster. I am a Customer Success Director with HireVue, and I want to introduce our feature presentation today, Jim Oddo with Frontier Communications. Yeah, you can go ahead and clap. Let’s clap. I like it.
Jim: Thank you. I appreciate it.
Melissa: Yeah, so I’ve been working with Frontier for, geez, about a year now.
Jim: A little over a year.
Melissa: A little over a year. They started with a pretty big project here in Utah actually, which is why we have some folks that are local here. It’s been a pleasure to work with them. They are so innovative and willing to try things, which is HireVue’s dream. If you could all just be like that, that’d be great. And so I’m going to give it over to Jim today who’s going to talk about what caught Joe Biden’s head, right? Official topic?
Melissa: All right. So I’ll pass it over to him. Thank you for coming.
Jim: Okay. Thank you, Melissa. All right. So the main topic today is long-term unemployment, which doesn’t really present me with a lot of opportunity for comic relief. So I’m just going to start out with a little bit of that. So the following video is a real depiction of a candidate’s experience with their first digital video interview, and that’s always pure entertainment for us.
Jim: Who’s calling me? Oh, look at that. Wow, our stock’s doing really well. Is this recording yet? Where’s the button? [music] Oh my God. This thing’s recording. Hi, I am Jim Oddo. I am the SVP of Human Resources at Frontier Communications, and I so apologize for missing the first minute of this interview question. The question is why do I feel I’m a good fit for your organization. Well, let me tell you that . . . let me . . . where’s the pause button? Shit. I’m sorry. Apparently no pause button. Okay. Can I start over or . . . Okay. No? Okay. Fantastic then. Well, I’ll tell you what. Let me just . . . what you’re seeing is what you’re getting. So to answer your question, I think I’d be a great fit for your organization. You know, I apologize. I use the curse word every once in a while, and I check our stocks frequently and see how we’re doing. But no, anyway, it’s great to be here. I’m just going to start over. Cut.
Okay, thank you. I had a little fun with that. So many of you have probably been using digital interviewing. And you’ve seen many bloopers, I’m sure, so we can put a whole two hours of blooper reels together I’m sure.
So again, thank you. Jim Oddo, Senior Vice President of Human Resources, Frontier Communications.
A little bit about Frontier, if you haven’t heard of us, we are the largest rural telecommunications company in America, headquartered in Stamford, Connecticut, almost 18,000 employees, $5 billion in revenue. We do business in 28 states today, so we’re purely domestic US, 100% US-based workforce, and very much a patriotic employer. Being rural America, we’re branded Main Street USA, so hiring veterans is extremely important for us. And so 13% of our workforce are veterans. Thank you. All right.
So a little bit about myself. Who is this guy? I am a born and bred recruiter. So I started out recruiting as a headhunter in the early to mid ’90s in ta search firm, small boutique search firm. We recruited physical therapists in the rehab medicine industry. And this was back in the day when Wite-Out was very popular, very much a part of your day. You whited out résumés. How many of the people in this room are very familiar with whiting out résumés? Okay, excellent. Good to have you. And then that is a picture of some thermal fax paper, so the thermal fax rolls to fax all those résumés for the sendouts.
So anyway, that was back in the day. That’s certainly pre-internet, and that’s where I grew up. And that’s where I fell in love with recruiting, the pre-internet days. I realized how much responsibility a recruiter really has to really ask the right questions, listen to your candidates, sell the employer properly, and make the right connections and do it for the right reasons; not for the placement fee. And so I, again, fell in love with the business.
Recruiting was very interesting. It was pre-internet days, and so you needed to be very innovative, strategic, and creative on how you sourced and got candidates. And for physical therapists, it was one of the top professions at the time. And so I had to be very creative, and I learned from some very creative leaders. And so who’s heard of ruse calling? And this was my ruse call, Dr. Michael Mancini. Anybody know this guy? What’s he from? Thank you. Melrose Place, that’s exactly right.
So my ruse calling, my alter ego, was Dr. Michael Mancini in the early to mid ’90s. I would call into rehab centers, hospitals, long-term care facilities, and you had to get through the gatekeeper. So this was the only way you’re going to get names is to actually find out who were the physical therapists that were working. No idea how good they were, just needed to get their information, needed their names so I could call in the next day and recruit them. And these gatekeepers, the receptionists, were unbelievably trained. They knew how to sniff out a headhunter like you wouldn’t believe.
So that was my challenge every day. I’d start my mornings as Dr. Michael Mancini. I had a whole profile. I was an orthopedic surgeon. I was from different parts of the country so I had different accents, a southern drawl, hard New York, Bronx accent. I had to go in with a different accent because when I got the names — and I did get them — the next day, I would call in as my normal voice, as a friend of that physical therapist.
So anyway, it’s what got me into recruiting. I fell in love with it. And so the reason why mention it is I think it leads me into the next slide here, which is the evolution of the applicant. So at that time, if you were a job seeker, in the early to mid ’90s, if you were looking for a job, number one source, classified ads. So you were circling jobs in the newspaper, or maybe you called a search firm, a placement agency, personnel agency. Or maybe you got a call from Dr. Michael Mancini. But that was really the primary way to apply for a job.
And you spent a lot of time on your résumé and your cover letter. That cover letter, you spent a lot of time crafting a beautifully well-written cover letter. And then maybe a few more weeks on the résumé itself, putting it on nice parchment paper, and then folding it neatly, and mailing it, sealing it, mailing it into that prospective employer. And if you got a call back, maybe two, three weeks later, you were ecstatic. So back in that day, it really wasn’t expected that you’d get instant acknowledgment of receipt, but you did spend a lot of time researching who you wanted to send your résumé to and your profile to.
As we fast-forward almost a decade into the internet recruiting days of monster.com and when hotjobs.com was very popular, and, as I like to say, when the internet blackhole began to form . . . and that’s actually it. That’s the internet blackhole. But it became a very different candidate experience. And I talk about this because there’s a reason for it. It certainly impacts the unemployed and the long-term unemployed today.
When you think about today and applying for a position, it is very easy. The technology makes it extremely easy for you to apply for a position. So if you’re a sales account exec and you have a bad day, you’re mad at your boss or you’re not happy with the commission structure, you’re going to go home that night, pull up LinkedIn, and you can apply for 50 jobs with one click of a button in five minutes. And we make it really easy for candidates to apply for work. And the people who feel the brunt of that, it’s us. It’s HR. It’s talent, because we get bombarded with applicants and résumés. And well, we have to rely on technology, on new, great technology to help screen those hundreds of applicants we’re getting per open requisition.
And so what does this technology do? Well, it filters out candidates who may not be qualified. And I know that there’s technology that’s out there that filters out candidates based upon work experience or gaps. Or if the word “present” isn’t in their résumé, they may never make it to the top of the pile. And again, the reason why I bring this up is it’s much more challenging today for somebody who is unemployed or long-term unemployed because of all the technology that exists and the amount of applications that are out there. And really, what it doesn’t do for us though is . . . we need this technology to help screen out candidates because of what I mentioned earlier, that account exec who sent out 50 résumés in five minutes, they did no due diligence. They didn’t do any research on the company. They didn’t find out if maybe they could possibly be a fit culturally. They just went ahead and blasted the résumé out there.
So again, the persons that really are feeling the brunt of this are the long-term unemployed. And so we’re going to get into that. I’m going to talk about the profile of somebody who’s long-term unemployed in a second, but if you have your app up, we got a couple of polling questions that I would love to hear your feedback on. And we’ll go to the answers at the end, so take your time with these questions.
So the first question is, “My hiring managers believe I am adding more value if I’m presenting passive top talent.” So true or false? Take a moment. Answer that question. Okay.
Question two, “I know at least one hiring manager who will not look at résumés of unemployed applicants.” True or false?
And then finally, the third question is, “Which of the following statement is true in your organization? A, my company still insists on seeing a candidate’s résumé as part of the recruiting process. B, my company prefers to see a résumé, but doesn’t require one for all the positions. Or C, my company would prefer not to see a résumé as part of the recruiting process, but just their video interview.”
So take your time. Answer those. We’ll get to the results at the end of the presentation.
So let me talk about Frontier and long-term unemployed. How do we get involved? I’m very fortunate to have worked for a CEO who is unbelievably well-respected in the industry, Maggie Wilderotter, one of Fortune Women’s Top 50 Most Powerful Women for several years. She was asked in 2010 by President Obama to be vice chair of his National Security Telecommunications Advisory Committee, so NSTAC. And so Maggie was once a quarter at the White House for meetings with a few other high-ranking CEOs, and so she immediately was given exposure to the White House.
And this was around the time when veteran hiring was really becoming a significant area of focus. At the time, there was a program called Joining Forces. There still is a program called Joining Forces, which is an initiative launched by Michelle Obama and Dr. Jill Biden. And they actually asked Maggie if Frontier would be interested in making a commitment. So it’s a fairly simple concept. The mission is for every post 9/11 veteran and military spouse to have employment. And the campaign is really asking employers to commit to hiring veterans, and so Maggie had given my name to the gentleman that was running the program for Joining Forces.
And so it’s a funny story. It’s a Saturday. I’m on a hike with my son’s Boy Scout troop, and we’re walking along, and I get a call. And I see a number I don’t recognize. I let it go to voicemail. And I pick up the message as we’re walking on this hike, and it’s this colonel from the White House. And of course Maggie didn’t give me any heads up that I’d be getting a call from the White House or that she gave my name out. And so I’m just putting two and two together pretty quickly. And so it was really funny because I’m not a troop leader, and all the troop leaders that were on the hike, I said, “Guys, hang on. I need to hang up for one second. I have to make a call to the White House.” So that was great. I became the most popular dad instantly there with the other Boy Scouts.
So that was really Frontier’s first involvement with the White House was we joined Joining Forces in our commitment to hiring veterans. So today, it still holds. So for a few years now, our target is 15% of our external hires are veterans or military spouses or reservists. And so we have a number of initiatives and campaigns. We’re a part of 100,000 Jobs Mission. We’ve received numerous acknowledgments and awards for our hiring of veterans.
We fast-forward to last year when President Obama then turned their focus on the long-term unemployed. And so somebody who is long-term unemployed is someone who’s officially unemployed not by choice for more than six months is the official categorization. And so it’s a part of the White House’s Ready to Work initiatives.
And so Mark had mentioned it in his opening speech that my CHRO was invited to a symposium last fall at the White House with about 30 other CHROs. And they were there to just brainstorm on what we can do as employers to help take down barriers. And so my CHRO was, at that time, obviously very well aware of our work we were doing with HireVue. And we’ve launched HireVue Digital Video Interviewing in January of 2014. I’ll talk a little bit more about that in a moment. But really, that’s how we were introduced. My CHRO, one of the best practices that she committed to was that we would host a webinar for other companies that maybe didn’t have familiarity with digital video interviewing and how it could possibly help take down barriers with the whole concept of what I consider getting away from the résumé first mentality.
The other connection I personally have, I’m on the Board of Directors for a nonprofit in Fairfield County, Connecticut called The WorkPlace. Our CEO is Joe Carbone. Joe launched a national program a couple of years ago called Platform to Employment or P2E. And a great program. It’s dedicated specifically for the long-term unemployed. He received national recognition for it a couple of years ago. 60 Minutes featured it as a story. And really from there, it blew up. And he’s launching it across the country nationally, so it’s not just in Connecticut.
And basically, what it is, it’s a very similar concept to what Apollo is doing with Hilton in regards to veterans and training and the G.I. Bill. It’s a training program that you have to apply for if you’re long-term unemployed. And you get five weeks’ worth of training. It’s really job readiness, and you got to have the hunger and the desire to get back into the workforce. But it’s a fantastic program. It’s a confidence builder. They help with interviewing tips and pointers, and how to dress for an interview, those kinds of things. And then they’re very focused on working with employers in proactively presenting their candidates and their five-week graduates. And what I love is a four-week wage subsidy that they offer as well, so employers have no risk. For four weeks, they can hire this employee and it’s fully paid for. And so it’s a highly successful program, again, dedicated towards long-term unemployment.
So if we look at the profile . . . my friends at The WorkForce provided me with some statistics on the long-term unemployed. So as of December 2014, long-term unemployed individuals made up almost 32% of the overall unemployed. Somebody who is long-term unemployed is about half as likely as someone short-term unemployed to get a call back for an interview. Being long-term unemployed has major negative consequences, both financially as well as personally. And I’ve got a timeline here to indicate . . . when you typically are long-term unemployed, these are some of the possibilities.
At six months, you’re going to begin cutting back on household expenses. Job seekers typically hide stress from family and friends. Certainly, loss of health insurance and possibility of skipping regular health checkups begins.
At a year, your personal savings is probably becoming depleted. Credit card debt is mounting. Children are impacted in families because they are no longer able to go on enrichment activities, and depression and self-doubt begin to impact the job seeker’s outreach.
At a year and a half, job seeker becomes desperate. Communication and technical skills begin to atrophy. This is right along the lines with the lack of confidence that’s beginning to occur. And of course, the decline of physical health.
At two years, it’s an extreme situation. We’ve seen a number of situations, folks who’ve been unemployed for more than two years. And I’ve seen some horror stories and families that had to foreclose on homes. Divorce is very common. Homelessness is very prevalent. So it’s a sad story. It really is.
The point of me mapping this out for everybody is not to bring everybody down, but this is what motivated me when I heard about long-term unemployed. It motivated me, as an employer, to take on some responsibility to possibly do something that we can to give back to the communities that we serve.
So what we did, we decided with the launch of HireVue . . . in January of 2014, we piloted HireVue’s On Demand Interviews with an opening of a contact center or call center here in Provo, Utah. So my team is here. I thank them for being the champions and the early adopters of HireVue.
The reason why we signed up HireVue in the first place was we knew we needed to change. Customer service is extremely important in the Frontier model. Fifty percent of our revenues are residential revenues. Our largest sales channel is the call center representatives, so sales and service representative. This is a $12-an-hour person, one of the lowest paid jobs in the company. It’s one of the most difficult jobs in the company. You are responsible for solving a customer’s issue. And so a customer’s calling in with their internet down. Television’s down. Their bill is wrong. They’re not happy. And so we’re asking this customer service rep to solve their issue. We practice a methodology of first call resolution, so we don’t want our reps to transfer that customer and get them more upset. So it’s a challenge just to solve their issue, but we then ask you to up-sell that customer. So it’s an extremely challenging role. One of my first weeks on the job, I sat down with a customer service rep and side-by-side, listened to calls. And I’ll tell you, right now, I would not do it. It’s that hard of a job.
As you can imagine, with that kind of a difficult position . . . it’s rewarding. We have a very aggressive commission program as well that we offer. And so we go after sales and service talent that’s hungry for total compensation, not just a $12.00/hour rate. And so what we did was we looked at the backgrounds of our top producers, because turn, as you guys know, is very expensive. And so bringing down the turn rates of employees in the contact centers was a number one goal. And so we thought, “Let’s look at the top producers. Where are they coming from, experience, education?” And we didn’t find a lot of commonalities. There wasn’t any really prior experience that was a good future indicator of performance. But we did find that there were certainly a number of soft skills, behaviors, soft competencies that were common. So things like optimism, motivation, empathy, and what we call delighting the customer competencies.
So that’s great that we’ve identified it, but how do we go out and find it? It’s very difficult to find empathy on a résumé. So we felt we needed some type of video interviewing technology. We landed on HireVue, and we thought that this would be the perfect solution for us to meet our needs. And so we really fell into the whole taking down the barriers for long-term unemployment because our motive was really to hire top talent and the call centers that are going to produce, that are going to retain and stay with the company.
What we found was by implementing this solution in Provo — it was highly successful — we rolled it out across all of our customer service centers across the country. And then we rolled it out to other functions throughout last year, commercial account sales being one of the big areas. And my goal is eventually that every single position that we post will have a HireVue On Demand Video associated with it. And that’s the preferred place that I want applicants applying.
So it’s a shift. It’s a major shift that we’re asking our hiring managers to take on, which is the résumé is still going to be a part of the process. I just don’t want it to be the first part of the process. I want the first interaction with our applicants to be an on-demand video. And the reason for that is we’ve seen some great success in watching videos of candidates who are expressing themselves in a way that we think they could be very successful at Frontier based upon those competencies that we put value in, those delighting the customer competencies. And we invite them in for interview. We still haven’t looked at the résumé yet.
So it’s been very successful for us. We’ve seen a natural increase in the number of unemployed hires because we’re not screening out candidates who may not have worked in a couple of years or have a large gap in employment. And so we’re seeing a natural increase. I’m going to show some numbers in a little bit, but we’re seeing a natural increase in the long-term unemployed hires. And it’s been fantastic not just for long-term unemployed, but veterans.
We have, again, a proactive campaign that we put out there. We have a generic military job interview that’s on the Frontier site, and we advertise in military magazines and publications. We put out the URL for this generic military profile, and we ask some basic questions. We want to learn a little about somebody who’s . . . maybe if they’re coming off of active duty, what areas they were skilled in, what are their MOS codes, where they want to work geographically, what’s their motivation, learn a little bit about themselves. And then my recruiters are taking those profiles, and they’re proactively sending them to hiring managers and making connections happen.
Not to get too far off the topic, but some of the veterans’ recruiting issues that you may have heard is the translation of those skills into your open positions. And so this tool’s been really helpful in being proactive in trying to get veterans employment at Frontier.
So part of the initial issues that we had with getting hiring managers on board with this interview first concept . . . they were hesitant because if you’re a hiring manager, you’re so used to seeing a slate of résumés. You open a position, “I want to see the slate of résumés.” That’s just natural behavior. It’s a habit. And as we know, habits are hard to break. And so it definitely takes some influencing. And what we found, it’s been great. We literally bring in a hiring manager. We often will have a HireVue partner on the call to do training and train our managers on the product. And it’s usually the first experience with a digital video interviewing tool, and so they’re very impressed with it.
And the other misconception is that it’s going to slow the process down. So cycle time . . . obviously, it’s a key metric that we measure. And our cycle time’s great. We didn’t implement HireVue because we needed to improve cycle times in the contact centers, call centers specifically. And so it is a misconception that it’s just going to take longer for us to go through 200 video interviews than go through 15 résumés.
So by showing the features of HireVue and the ability to scroll through questions, the mobile components, the ability to look at candidates on your smartphone; it was a no-brainer. And so once managers got the chance to use it the first time, they were hooked and they were champions. And we use them as ambassadors to help us influence other managers across the company. And so we’re in the middle of that right now.
The other challenge, specifically, as it relates to things like long-term unemployment, are tracking and reporting on the long-term unemployed. It’s easy for us to track veterans. We’ve got a process set up today. Obviously, when we track diversity hires, we have a process set up. But long-term unemployment, we do not have a process. So we had to create one very similar. At the very end of the process, we built a feature that’s tied to our applicant tracking system. When someone’s hired, the recruiter needs to then identify whether the person’s truly long-term unemployed. And so that’s how we’ve been able to track it. It’s real simple science. If there’s any other way that we can do it better, faster, smarter, we’ll look into it. And we’d love to hear ideas if there are any out there.
So conceptually, this was recognized as a best practice, this paradigm shift. And so the webinar I referred to earlier that my CHRO signed us up for, I launched in January. And it’s about an hour webinar. And Mark Newman is featured on it as well to highlight the features of HireVue. Joe Carbone’s on it. Eric Wohl, the head of talent at DISH Network, is on it. Eric is a business partner of mine and has similar challenges as it relates to customer service hires. And so we created this webinar, again, with the concept of getting other companies and employers to try it out. Just pilot it in one of your functions. It doesn’t matter what it is, sales, marketing, HR. Try it. Just try the whole interview first concept. Let’s refrain from looking at the résumé. Let’s watch the videos, and then let’s decide who we want to bring in based upon their video. And then we’ll look at the résumé later.
And so that webinar is actually live. It’s up on the SHRM website, and we did creatively to get people to go in and view it, companies to go in and view it. You actually get a credit for your SPHR certification. We had to dangle somewhat of a carrot.
All right. So let’s look at some of the results that we have had. So since January of 2014, we have hired 4,500 new employees, which is about twice the amount of the normal volume for Frontier. We have just been growing like mad. We continue to grow. One thing I didn’t mention from the introduction at the beginning is we have an acquisition that we’ll be closing next year of three states of Verizon Landline Assets in Florida, Texas, and California, and we’re going to double in size. So it will be 30,000 employees, $11 billion in revenue, a Fortune 240. We will no longer be flying under the radar.
And we don’t have a connection with Frontier Airlines. So if any of you are thinking that, no points if you fly Frontier Airlines. You’re not going to get them with us. We should buy Frontier Airlines though because there’s so much confusion. I can’t tell you how many people that I introduced myself to said, “Oh, I love your airline, fly you all the time.”
So we’ve hired 4,500 people since January of 2014. Thirty-five percent of those hires were unemployed and 13% were long-term unemployed. So we’ve had 580 long-term unemployed hires since then. And really, this is the line in the sand. We’re hopefully going to increase that number as we grow the organization, but it’s hard. I can’t tell you how many long-term unemployed I’ve hired in years past. I just know it’s more. So that’s a good number, and we’re going to continue to build on it.
The veterans piece is really where we’re seeing some impact. So in 2013, 7% of our hires were veterans. And of the 4,500 since January of 2014, 10.4%, 470 veterans. So we increased it from 7% to 10.4%. And I think things like the military interviewing profile that we created on HireVue really helps.
And so HireVue, the digital difference . . . we’re tracking the number of digital interviews. And so what’s interesting is . . . and this is kind of hard to see. I apologize. But we’ve tracked here how many folks completed a video interview and how many were hired. So the number works out to be 35%, which I think is pretty good compared to other sources that I’m using. I think the best source conversion rate I have is 5%. So of all of the HireVue interviews that were done since February of 2014, we’ve hired 35% of those candidates. So again, I think it’s a pretty good number. But I’ve heard some other statistics, and our goal is to get that number up.
So obviously, we want to have more videos, and we will as we roll it out across the company and as we really talk about making it mandatory to complete a video interview as a part of the application process. We haven’t done that yet, but we’re close to that. Somebody had mentioned it in one of the other presentations that they didn’t have any issues with an applicant not having the ability to complete a video interview. So if they wanted a job and they were hungry, they’d go to the public library to do the video if they didn’t have a webcam at home or if they didn’t have a smart phone that has the capability. And I like that. I like that someone’s got to go a little bit out of the way to apply for a job at Frontier. That means that you’re really hungry. You really want the job. You’re interested. Hitting the one-click apply on LinkedIn 50 times, that doesn’t do anything for me. So I like that we’re starting to really force the video interview to be really the only way to apply at Frontier.
So as we continue to grow . . . debunking the myth . . . So there’s a myth out there that hiring managers have had . . . and we’ll see in the survey question, the results of the survey in a few minutes. But the myth is that if you’re unemployed, especially long-term unemployed, you’ve got diminished skills and you may not be as productive. And so we started to track this. Again, we don’t have a huge sample of data, but since January of 2014, we began tracking these hires. And two key metrics, retention and promotions, which is if we track promotions, that’s giving me an idea of performance and productivity and quality of hires. So these are quality of hire metrics. And so what was interesting is that . . . this is up-to-date. Since January of 2014, there’s only a 1% difference in retention rate for somebody who’s long-term unemployed versus somebody who was previously employed. So that’s a great statistic. So 84.1% we’re able to retain long-term unemployed, and 85% of previously employed.
So the numbers are showing that we’re able to retain a long-term unemployed better. That’s not shocking because what we’re finding is that a long-term unemployed applicant has a tremendous sense of loyalty. They are very appreciative that, “Hey, Frontier took a chance on me.” And so we see that. We see a greater sense of loyalty. And retention’s great, especially in our customer service centers. As my customer service leaders know, the longer you have somebody in the roll, the more productive they’re going to be, the more revenue they’re going to generate. And the cost of turn is extremely high.
So the other one, the quality of hire metric, so performance. So we tracked promotions. And this was a great stat. So since January of 2014, of those 4,500 hires, we promoted 17.6% of the long-term unemployed hires, and we promoted 15.9% of those that were previously employed. So we’re actually promoting more long-term unemployed hires since January of 2014. Again, it’s not an exact direct correlation that means that we’re hiring a higher quality of talent, but it helps in taking steps towards debunking the myth. And these are the stats that the White House loves, because as it’s mentioned, and as Mark talked about it . . . I actually haven’t met Joe Biden, but they did put together a Ready to Work American study. And so Frontier was highlighted in it. So that’s how we got to be associated with the Vice President.
So again, really my point here . . . and when Mark asked me to speak about this, I said, “Look, if I get one company, whether they have digital video interviewing or not, and they decide to launch video interviewing for this reason, or they want to give it a chance, and I get one company that comes out of this conference with a commitment that they’re going to at least try it, then I’ve done my job and I’m happy.” So again, just asking a new mindset and new results.
All right. Well, thank you, everybody. I appreciate you coming.